What are you looking at as far as fly-points? The kit for flying only fits one way, and uses all the holes in the cabinet.Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I have the kit for flying the cabinet, and don't know what to do with it....... I know that as soon as I recycle it, someone will want/need it, or I'll see one sell on ebay for small fortune.
Audio_by_Goodwill
Michigan, USA
OK, i keep forgetting how late this model is, was thinking of flying hardware from a generation of gear earlier.What are you looking at as far as fly-points? The kit for flying only fits one way, and uses all the holes in the cabinet.
So this kit is a full frame that goes all the way around the box? Are the points seen on the box simply T-nutted holes?
I would still assume the flying gear allows for either orientation.
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
I have the 416 8C in my 825/828 cabinets. I would recommend these cabinets as the give a presumed better bass response ( after port reduction ) and allow pretty much any HF horn combination you prefer. 800 HZ crossover for the 416 as discussed in an earlier post.
Thanks for all the input!!!
Well, I don't actually have any cabinets at all for them right now, and would consider building pretty much any kind of enclosure. The reason I ask about the 816, is that I've heard these with the 416-8C in combination with 288-8G, and EV T35, and the whole thing sounded very "free" and "in the room" - playing any kind of music without any sign of subjective compression or strain - actually a very worthwhile musical experience for me.
The owner of this system explained to me that, I possibly would get a marginally better bass output with the 828 cabinet, but then again, it would be slightly bulkier too - he himself used to have 828 before he got the 816 built. He also has 2 x EV 30" woofers in a back wall, as a subwoofer, but rarely has these connected (he didn't have these active when I listened to the system).
I could also see myself adding a subwoofer if necessary.
So, apart from the partially horn loaded 816/828, there's no other (more modern or otherwise) established horn loaded enclosure for the 416-8C?
Putting these woofers in vented enclosures, would probably not render the result I heard from the 816?
Yes, a frame. T-nuts are in the cabinet.
I'm sure it's possible, but it looks like it was designed for a vertical orientation, rather than a horizontal one, to me. That's the way I've seen in pictured.I would still assume the flying gear allows for either orientation.
I was going to try to put it in to words but quickly gave up..... 3d spacial relations is hard to communicate with text...... so here:
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/vintage...sion%20Kit.pdf
Audio_by_Goodwill
Michigan, USA
Nothing that's common, and nothing newer from Altec that's horn loaded.
I'm no cabinet designer, but I'd guess given a properly designed box, you could reach lower bass notes, at the cost of efficiency.Putting these woofers in vented enclosures, would probably not render the result I heard from the 816?
If you've already listened to the 816's in a system an liked it, then either build a pair, or find a pair of 825/828's to listen too, and then decide. The 825/828 will reach a little lower, but still not low enough for some people.
Audio_by_Goodwill
Michigan, USA
The Model 19 cabinet is very popular, and perhaps (hear-say) designed for the 416-8C.
It's HF section is for a ~1" (aka small format) driver. You are talking about a 288 which would be a ~2" aka 'large format' driver . Perhaps you'd just sit it on top, and not use the top M19 horn section. I do not know if it is a continuous volume (I would suspect so) or sealed from the HF cavity.
The system you heard sounds like a 3 way setup of course.
The M19 and the classic A5 / A7 (825 and 828 model LF sections mentioned) are 2 way.
So perhaps it was actively crossed over?
If not, then you'd want to inquire about the crossover used as well.
In any event, you'd want to find out more about the crossover points used (passive or active) if you are trying to repro that system.
It will end up affecting your decision as you look at the specs.
- and to clarify - the M19 cabinet is of course not horn loaded... just an alternate established Altec cab design.
- as for whether it would get you the same result as the 816 - (shrug).
I think the conversation would then turn to how much of what you heard was horn loading, vs. 'direct radiation' from the 416 itself.
Where the cabinets were positioned in the room (and where they would be in yours) may come into play etc. (The mention of 30" EV's in the back wall - makes it sound like it could have been a large space).
Again, knowing the crossover points will help that thought process along.
i.e. the lower the xover point to the LF gets, the less of the horn loading was occurring, and thus maybe the M19 is just or more suitable.
The 816 cabinet design was pictured on early data sheets with the horn flares horizontal and the port on the bottom. Many were actually placed in clusters in this orientation. We started measuring speaker coverage for the AcoustaCad design software in the early '90s and discovered the 816 flare should be vertical with the port on one side. This orientation produces a typical pattern where the horizontal coverage is greater than the vertical. This begins to make sense when one realizes the horn flare produces a tighter pattern then the straight walls.
Point of information: The 816 (all versions) will grow in the vertical coverage (horn flares) above 800Hz. This can be a problem in a flown cluster and probably not so much a problem for home stereo.
When developing the 816VI we used two ports for symmetry. This made the cabinet better looking, no other reason. The port frequency, flare and volume of the 816VI is the same as all previous versions.
The suspension kit is a full frame that the 816VI sits in. This eliminates the possibility of the cabinet coming apart and falling on someone. A single kit can be suspended any way you want (sideways, slantways, etc)
The 816VI was loaded with a 515-8GHP. The later 515 woofers were specifically designed for base-horn application and were generally marginal in ported cabs. The advantage of the later 515 was the very light mass and large motor. In a base-horn cab they are said to be as accurate as a 12" mid. The 416 will work in an 816, the 515 works better.
Frequency response is typical of a base-horn. In open air there is a step down of about 6dB when the horn unloads. For the 816 this is around 200Hz and can be clearly seen on the data sheet. Placed in a half-space or better (on the floor, against a wall) this step-down disappears and response can be very flat. However, the 816 is not going to deliver dynamic bass for movies or Hip-Hop music.
Experience is Knowledge
The lifelike dynamics from that short little horn have an intoxicating effect, so much so that they can alter our perception to a point where the missing octaves at both ends of the spectrum become almost moot.................. for a while.I think the conversation would then turn to how much of what you heard was horn loading, vs. 'direct radiation' from the 416 itself.
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
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